Between the Lines

Cooper, Metro-Dome Vacancy & MLB’s HR Surge on Perry’s Mind

What do you think of Cecil Cooper as the Astros’ interim coach and potential head coach?

I’ve known Cecil for a long time and think he would be an outstanding manager for the Astros.  I know personally that Cecil was a tough guy to get out; he played hard during every game and had the respect of his opponents because of his ability to play the game.  He’s paid his dues as a bench coach.  I’m pulling for him

What do you think about MLB’s push to include more minority managers?

Managing a major league baseball club is a tough job and in some cases you don’t always have a lot of applicants to choose from.  This is not a new issue; Major League Baseball has been addressing minority managers and Cecil being selected at the Astros would certainly help, and he’s more than qualified for the job.

This week, baseball lost a great minor league third base coach when he was hit with a line drive.  Isn’t that a very dangerous job?

I’ve always thought that first and third base coaches are the most dedicated in the game.  They do not have time to watch the hitter because they keep an eye on the runner so they can help him advance the bases.  Mentally, they approach the job as if they don’t worry about the ball hitting them.  It takes a special breed of person to stand 90 feet or less from some fantastic hitters.  They impress me with their dedication.  My prayers go out to this coach’s family. 

Minnesota announced plans to move from the Metro Dome.  Will you miss it?

A dome stadium without a retractable roof just isn’t attractive.  I remember playing at Cleveland in 1972 at an outdoor park by the airport.  It was a fantastic place to play ball.  We know that you are going to have a cold day at Wrigley, in Atlanta and at a lot of parks in the spring.  It’s part of the game and fans come to expect it.  I was talking to Harmon Killebrew last Sunday and he recalled not believing the Metro Dome wasn’t constructed with a roof that would open.  It really would have made a difference in the overall baseball experience for both the player and fans.

Since Pete Rose reached 500 homeruns, we’ve seen a 50% increase in the number of players reaching that statistics.  Next year alone, MLB has the potential to add four or five members to that club.  How do you explain this surge?

Owners and fans have put a lot more emphasis on hitting homeruns.  Plus, parks are just so much smaller these days. They are built for homeruns.  For instance, there was a homerun in the Yankee’s game yesterday that would have been a given pop-up out in DiMaggio’s day. 

I remember in Pittsburg, where I got my first win, they would put the batting cage in centerfield so the balls would go out of the stadium. 

Baltimore started the trend towards smaller baseball parks.  Then owners jumped on the bandwagon by paying a bonus for homeruns hit in a season.  It was all to make the game more exciting for fans and I support that.  But, as a pitcher, it sure doesn’t do a lot for pride!  Heck, no one wants to see a shutout unless you are a Yankees fan and Boston is up.

Is there anything else that’s lead to more homeruns?

Yes, there’s a lot more emphasis on protecting the batter then in previous decades.  If a pitcher throws at the batter’s head, for instance, he’s automatically going to be ejected from the game.  In my day when Gibson or Drysdale were on the mound, batters didn’t dig in at the plate like they can today.   

Owners who are fortunate to have an A-Rod or Derek Jeter on the roster always think that it will be another 20 years before another player of this caliber will come along and they really want to protect their investment. 

The same thing is true about football.  Heck, I remember when Eddie LeBaron played for the Redskins.  As s 5’4” QB, he had to run for his life on every play.  Now, the QB is the most protected player on the field.

Another thing that has led owners to these measures is expansion.  In the ‘60’s there were 16 clubs. Now with 32, the talent is spread out across so many teams.  This gave birth to the franchise player concept, which some teams have made work very well while others still struggle.

NL Cy Young winner Chris Carpenter almost gave up the game in 2003 due to injury.  How does a pitcher avoid this situation or does he have any control over injuries at all?

Taking care of your body is the first thing.  That means treating your body well by getting enough rest, working out and keeping your body fit and strong.  The other, and most important for pitchers, is good mechanics. 

A pitcher cannot afford to throw against his body.  Power in pitching is from the waist down.  Strong legs took stress off the arm and when you could get the upper and lower portions of your body working together, it’s like a well-oiled machine. 

Good coaches are always looking at mechanics and suggesting ways to improve.  This is to keep a player healthy and in the lineup on a daily basis.

Does the game change for a player in October?

To make it to October you have to have a great September.  Take Cy Young winner, Carpenter. He won with four or five solid games in September that capped off a good spring and summer.  It also laid the foundation for a really good autumn.   That’s how to win Cy Youngs and Pennants.  The last six weeks of the season either make or break a lot of ball clubs.

Right now you see the Yankees picking it up, as they always do this time of the year.  You also see Boston having trouble; heck, it only takes one week to blow a seven-game lead.

When I played baseball, everyone on the team had their eye on September and October.  That’s when you could really make some money to carry you through the off season.  Back then, if you could win the World Series, a player would make more money than the rest of the season.  That’s why September and October are so critical. 

What are your plans for the holiday weekend?

We’re headed to Atlanta with my grandkids to watch the Mets series.  It should be a very fun weekend.

Gaylord Perry on the Little League World Series, Michael Vick, Alex Rodriguez, lead-off hitters, NL and AL manager of the year choices and Phil Rizzuto

Q:

Do you watch the Little League World Series?

A:

Oh yes, I sure do! I remember watching it the year Jim Bruher’s son pitched the winning game. I played with Jim, it must have been ’82 or ’83 and their team won the Little League World Series. His son later became third baseman for the San Diego Padres.

Just the other night I saw that great catch when the kid reached over the fence. They’ve really hit a lot of homeruns this year. I even have an autographed ball from when Jim’s son played. It’s on the dresser side of my bed and I think about how some of those kids made it to the big leagues.

Q:

We’ve just learned that Michael Vick is going to plead guilty. What do you think of him as an athlete and as a person?

A:

Well, as an athlete, he probably should have been a running back. Last year he set a record of over a thousand yards as a rushing quarterback. He certainly isn’t as good a passer as he is a running quarterback. He did come from a tough neighborhood, went to college and got drafted number one; he had everything working in his favor but now he seems to have thrown it all away on something that is despicable. It reminds me of a time when my kids were young. I took them to see the movie Bambi. At the time I hunted a little bit. However, after taking the kids to see Bambi, my kids would start crying if I wanted to go hunting. They would say ‘mama, daddy is going to kill Bambi’. I gave up hunting.

We always had dogs as pets. Now, we have an Irish wolfhound who is just a very loving dog. We also have a Sheltie named Champ. We even have horses now. As an animal caretaker, I believe Michael Vick has to know what he did was wrong and I’m sure the Court will take care of that.

Q:

Alex Rodriguez is closing in on 150 RBIs and 150 runs for the year. Has he been overlooked in the year of Barry Bonds?

A:

Rodriguez has been a great baseball player for years. I remember when Seattle signed him right out of Florida. I knew when they gave him more than a million dollars to sign that he was going to be a great player. In those days Seattle didn’t throw money around – they were tight. Rodriguez certainly hasn’t disappointed anyone. I’ve never really understood why the people, especially in New York, don’t like him. I do think he’s been overlooked a little but setting a new homerun record is a tough act to follow.

Q:

Is Alex Rodriguez the best all-around player in the game today? A: I can’t think of anyone else that’s better. He’s got power, his batting average is good, he’s got good speed, he’s got a strong arm and he wants to play. He wants to play every inning of every day. I can’t think of a player that I would chose before him if I were starting a team.

***Gaylord Fun Fact: Who was the last man to go 150-150? Ted Williams in 1949 (159 RBIs, 150 runs).***

Q:

Curtis Granderson and Jimmy Rollins are on pace to reach the 20-double, 20-triple, 20-homer, 20-steal club this year. Are these guys receiving the credit they deserve or has the role of lead-off hitter diminished since it seems everyone is consumed with homeruns?

A:

When I played our lead-off hitter was Bobby Bonds, year after year he hit 30 - 35 homeruns and had 30 - 35 stolen bases. You have to reach those numbers before getting the recognition. 20 isn’t a number that you are going to be remembered for. There are too many players hitting the 20 homeruns and making 20 stolen bases. There are only a handful of players who have 30 homeruns and 30 stolen bases year after year. Between 20 and 30 homeruns is like the difference between 15 and 20 wins. These 20-hitters are close to reaching statistical greatness. Alfonso Soriano is on the Cubs disabled list right now, but when he comes back he’ll probably hit 30 homeruns or more. If the lead-off hitter gets you 30 homeruns you’ve got a heck of a lead-off hitter.

Q:

Who were the great lead-off hitters of your time?

A:

I’ve mentioned Bobby Bonds who played with me. Most lead-off hitters were guys that could get the walks, but Bobby wasn’t interested in walks, he wanted to hit the ball. Mickey Rivers was a good lead-off hitter but not a homerun hitter. In those days, if you could get both of those things together then man you had a great lead-off guy. Today, there are only a handful of players who can do it. Soriano is one of those guys.

Q:

San Diego Padres relief pither, Kevin Cameron, is on the verge of compiling the lowest ERA by any National Leaguer in history (Current ERA 0.80). Do you think there’s a chance he could break Dennis Eckersley’s all-time single-season ERA record of 0.61 for the 1990 A’s?

A:

It would be great if he did but the difference that I see is Eckersley did it year after year. One year doesn’t make a career. One year doesn’t make you into a Hall of Famer like Eckersley. When a pitcher is recognized by awards then other teams begin gunning for him. Repeat success is much more difficult. Like Bob Gibson, the first year he posted a low ERA everyone noticed him. The next year it was a big deal to win 2-1 or 1-0 against Gibson. That’s the reason I enjoyed pitching against the greats like Drysdale, Colfax and Gibson. If you were good enough to out pitch these guys then you gained more respect among your colleagues and fans.

Q:

Who do you like for National League manager of the year?

A:

Wow, phew! Well, the way it’s going right now I would have to say [Lou] Piniella. He took a team that was in last place last year. He added a lot of talent in the off season and has really turned the Cubs around. He caused a scene during the beginning of the year, but he’s a fighter. He put on that show; he knew what he was doing. He wasn’t doing it for himself; he was doing it to get his team fired up and the fans behind him.

[Sidenote: During a press conference after a Cubs-Reds game on April 13, 2007, when Cubs ace Carlos Zambrano blew a five-run lead in the 5th inning, in which the Reds scored 6 runs, winning the game 6-5, a reporter asked Piniella what was not working for the Cubs. He responded in a loud, angry voice, "What the hell do you think isn't working?! You saw the damn game!… This guy is your ace, you got a 5-0 lead with the eighth and ninth hitters coming up, you feel pretty good about that inning and all of a sudden it turns into a six-run inning.” Then Piniella said, obviously still agitated but calmer, “And then I bring in the reliever who’s throwing 30-to-40-foot curveballs to boot. I can see. I can start to see some of the ways this team has lost ballgames. I can see it. We’ve got to correct it obviously. This game here is one that got away from us that really shouldn’t.”

In a similar meltdown after the May 17, 2007 game against the Mets, Lou stated, "I don't care about feelings". On June 2, 2007, Piniella got ejected as a Cub for the first time, after throwing down his hat, kicking dirt at umpire Mark Wegner, and kicking his hat three times. He was arguing a call that Angel Pagan was out at third on a wild pitch. In the post-game press conference, he said Pagan looked safe from the dugout, but acknowledged that, after seeing the replay, the umpire made the right call. However, he also said he was going to argue no matter if Pagan was safe or out: "It didn't make a damn bit of difference." He was suspended for four games, the longest of his career.]

Have you seen what the Cubs have done since he threw that fit on the field? And man can he throw a fit. I saw Bill Morris do that a lot, whenever his team was dead, not doing well. Anytime he saw an opportunity to pick up one of his players and he’d just go nuts. He’d cover home plate, he’d throw his hat. Earl Weaver was the same way. He’d go out and sit on second base. He did that during one game when I pitched – I was with the Yankees then. He told the umpire that he wasn’t leaving until the umpire made Perry stop that pitch. Then the umpire said we are going to give you 60 seconds or you will forfeit the game. Well, he had to get up because he couldn’t stand to forfeit the game.

These managers put on a show to get their players excited and saying: 'Hey, our manager is taking up for us'. It makes players feel great when their manager is fighting for them. Look at Bobby Cox. For 15 years or more his team has done so well. He just took the lead for getting thrown out of games. He gets the word across. When a team of 25 people, who see their manager go out there day after day, fighting for them and taking up for them, it brings something out in them that nothing else does.

Q:

What about the American League?

A:

Well, I tell you that is going to be a toss-up between like four guys. The Yankees are only four guys out. The Red Sox are four games in front. You got Seattle in first place out there and the Angels are still in it. You got several candidates and I couldn’t pick one out right now.

Q:

There’s so many fun things we could talk about all day long, but I have to ask you in closing for your thoughts on Phil Rizzuto, a long-time Yankee player and broadcaster.

A:

I only knew Phil as a radio man, because I didn’t get over to the American League until ’72. He just had charisma. He was just so great, you just can’t mistake his high worth and value to the game; how he explains it and all. He’s been a great baseball man and he will be missed.

Gaylord Perry on Sports Media, Reaction to the New Homerun Record and the 300 Club

Q:

A lot of media outlets, especially ESPN, turned their coverage to cheating in sports immediately after Barry Bonds set the new homerun record.  As someone who has received a lot of press for the controversial “Spitter” pitch, what are your thoughts?

A:

When I played baseball a lot of pitchers tried to get an advantage.  One way was to make the hitter think there might be something on the baseball.  Maybe there was and maybe there wasn't, but the point is the pitcher knew and the batter didn't.  That's called a psychological advantage.  That's the main thing we did in my day.

It was very similar to using a corked bat during batting practice; the ball would jump off the bat and inevitably the opposing pitcher, who is watching from a far…trying to get an advantage…would say to himself ‘man this guy is really swinging the bat well'.  It would mess with his mind. 

Q:

What reaction have you witnessed so far to Barry Bonds becoming the new homerun champion?

I've been in Denver and the responses that I've seen have all really been positive about Bonds.  It's just something the media and all of those who don't want to accept it just have to live with. Barry has taken the test he's required to take and it's been negative.

People, in general, are resistant to change and those associated with baseball are no different.  It's like when they changed the baseball from horse hide to cow hide – it was very soft and loose and the ball didn''t travel far, then they glued it together and now they've changed or improved it to where it jumps and we're seeing the numbers of homeruns that we are.  I remember when wood bats were used in college and high school before changing to aluminum bats because of the cost. Aluminum bats are something that most of us wish we could get rid of but we can't, we just have to live with it. You just have to live with what Bonds and McGuire have done and put your own thoughts away and go from there.

Q:

What's the difference between cheating and psychological tricks? Where do we draw the line?

A:

I always go back to taking advantage of the situation. If the catcher gives a sign that is easy for the opposition to pick up then you've got to expect that it's going to happen. If a pitcher tips the pitch because of his wind-up then the opposing team is going to take advantage of it. It's the same for all sports. If a defensive player learns the pattern of a split ends habit and can associate those with different routes then we've got to expect him to anticipate the play. It's the same thing with baseball – if you know a pitcher is throwing a fast ball by the way he winds up then that's what you are going to be prepared to hit. Its part of the game, players do what they can within the rules to improve their chances.

Q:

Do you think the media makes too much of Bonds and cheating?

A:

I think ESPN has overdone the negative coverage and pretty soon the viewers are going to get sick of it.  A player still has to have hand-eye coordination in order to hit the ball. I haven't heard of any medications that help hand-eye coordination yet. Everybody thinks the negative stuff is what is going to get fans to the ball park, but I think it's the good things that are going to get the fans to come out. Fans, they enjoy competition. I went to a dinner last night and a luncheon today in Denver and they were talking about the Rockie's playing great ball; they're not talking about one of the Rockies' being tested. I think ESPN is overplaying it really.

Q:

So you believe the sports media over-sensationalizes their coverage in order to create a story?

A:

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. They are over-emphasizing what's going on. They aren't spending enough time comparing the different record-setting ball players and the times in which they played.  More focus should be on the Babe Ruth era - he was the greatest homerun hitter of his time - and then you take Henry Aaron, he was the greatest of his time, now we have Bonds, and in a few years it's going to probably be Rodriguez. Someone else will come along, they always do.

Q:

Is it kind of like comparing Tiger Woods to Jack Nicklaus?

A:

Exactly. You know Jack Nicklaus didn't have the knowledge of how athletic training benefits a golfer nor the access to equipment in order to workout. He didn't have nutritionists, trainers and other experts advising him day-to-day. Tiger Woods has all of these things so naturally he should be a better player.  Just look at the difference in equipment the two have access to during their prime years. The same is true in baseball. When I played, we didn't have the training or medial equipment or experts that they have now.  We didn't even have a whirlpool.

Q:

What was your reaction to the Hank Aaron message when Barry Bonds broke the 755 record?

A:

I thought that was just outstanding. I am sure the Commissioner got Henry to record the message. The Commissioner and Henry are very close friends. It was the right thing to do. And I thought Barry Bonds saying to Rodriguez - I saw it on tape - 'You don't have to worry about when you pass my record I'll be pulling for you. I'll be on the front row pulling for you'. And I thought that was very good of Barry Bonds. It took a lot of class.

Q:

Does A-Rod have that many homeruns left in himself?

A:

Oh absolutely! I think he's definitely going to hit 800 or more. And Barry knows that.

Q:

Does Dale Murphy hurt his own legacy by saying the things he did about Barry Bonds?

A:

I would think so. I know Dale Murphy and he's one of the finest gentlemen I know. I didn't like his attitude while talking about a fellow baseball player. So, maybe Barry isn't the easiest guy to get along with or even that nice a guy sometimes. It's just one of those things. I was surprised when I saw the Dale Murphy tape. I don't know why he took the stand that he did.  I was just very surprised because I know what type of gentleman he was for many, many years. It sounds like he's going into politics doesn't it?

Q:

Just one more follow up on the media and baseball.  How does the coverage of Barry Bonds compare to when you played baseball?

A:

The difference is back in the '60s and early '70s is that writers covering the game of baseball were there to report what went on during the game. I think now too may of them are reporting on what is going on before or after the games too much. If Barry Bonds went 0 for 4 then he's going to be upset and react that way. If a pitcher is knocked out in the second inning he's going to be in a foul mood, and if a writer wants to talk right then the conversation may not be too pleasant. The player makes his living through the game and it is very hard on him when he doesn't perform well, it's like he let the team down, let his family down. In these situations players sometimes say stuff they shouldn't and it gets turned around. When I played, baseball writers told the story of what happened during the game and left our personal issues out of the article.  That's the way it should be. We always remember those reporters for that respect. But now I think they just have to cover everything about a player to fill up all the time on air and space in magazines so they can keep selling advertising.

Writer needs to report the game itself, maybe a Hollywood writer should include what's going on before and after for a movie, but I'm just saying we need to get back to telling just what happened on the field and leave the rest alone.

Q:

Let's talk about Tom Glavine winning his 300th game. Did you talk with him?

A:

No I didn't. I sent a message to him by ESPN, of course, [chuckles] to congratulate him. Tell him that I was looking forward to having him join the club and for him to get many more. I was hoping he'd go nine innings but he came out about the sixth inning.

Q:

Did watching Tom Glavine accomplish 300 wins bring back memories?

A:

I didn't watch the whole thing because I was disappointed that he didn't continue to pitch. I was just hoping he'd go on and show how much he wanted it. I thought they would have given him a couple more innings, but he didn't finish his game and he turned it over to the bullpen.

Gaylord Perry on Hall of Fame Induction and Impactful Trades

Q:

How was your trip to Cooperstown for the Hall of Fame induction ceremony?

A:

It’s was a great experience as always.  The organization really does a first-class job hosting the induction ceremony and if anyone gets the chance they ought to attend one.   It sure is a lot different than 1991 when I was inducted.  The estimated attendance was over 75,000. 

Q:

Do members of the Hall of Fame have private time together?

A:

Yes, after we take a photograph with the new members we all have dinner together.  This year there were 53 members in attendance, plus Cal Ripken and Tony Gwinn.  It was probably the most members we’ll ever have at one meeting.  Anyway, we get to have dinner and visit with one another.  We sign autographs for each other and get to talk without the media present. 

Q:

I bet there are some interesting things said in that meeting?

A:

[Laugh] There sure are, but it’s all just good clean fun.

Q:

What stood out most about the speeches?

A:

Tony talked for 30 minutes, which was too long.  I was impressed by the way he went all the way back to Little League and thanked every coach he’s had.  He recalled them all and how each one made an impression on his life.  He talked about how they encouraged him to work harder and to take advantage of the athletic gifts he’d been given.   

Of course Cal’s brother (Billy) was there.  He talked about his father’s tremendous influence on his life and about growing up in the Baltimore Orioles organization.
Both Tony and Cal gave great speeches.  It’s just so hard to sum up your entire baseball career in one speech and no matter what, you always think of something or someone that you wanted to mention after making the speech.

Q:

Were there any trades that will have an impact on the remainder of this season?

A:

Yes there were.  Boston acquired Eric Gagne from the Texas Rangers and that’s going to have a big impact on the rest of the season.  It was important that the Yankees and the Detroit Tigers not benefit from the trade and I think most teams realized that and that’s why these two ball clubs were not in the mix more than usual.  But the best all-around trades were by the Atlanta Braves.  Picking up first baseman Mark Teixeira from the Texas Rangers and getting Kansas City reliever Octavio Dotel will put the Braves back into the playoff picture this year.

Q:

A lot of critics speculate that the Braves gave up too much to get Dotel and Teixeira, what do you think?

A:

Well, I had a chance to talk with John Schuerholz during the Hall of Fame ceremony.  We sat in the front porch rockers talking about his team.  I said that he had two great catchers and it’s really difficult to find a switch-hitting first baseman.  He said that his catcher [Brian McCann] just signed a six-year deal so I kind of figured something was in the works that would involve Salty [catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia].  But listen, Shuerholz is the smartest General Manager in the game and he’s got the best coach in Bobby Cox.  They may not have made the playoffs last year but they’re going to get back.  Did they give up a lot in future players?  Yes, but who am I to say that the team they have now cannot go all the way?

Q:

Did Shuerholz give you any other insight into the Braves’ future?

A:

He did indicate that trades aren’t over which means to me that he’s got his eye on some players and if he can make another trade work this year then he’ll go for it.  I don’t think he’s finished with this year’s team.

Q:

Which bubble team would you favor to be in the playoff mix?

A:

The Cubs have been on a winning streak and their pitching is coming back.  Also, the Rockies have a long stretch of home games upcoming and their players are well suited to hit in that ballpark.  The air is so thin that the baseball carries so far.  But, I’d have to say the Yankees are the bubble team that will go the distance.  You just cannot count them out.  They always make a move in late August or September to carry the team the last four or six weeks.  With their money you can just do things that other teams cannot.

Q:

How does the media affect a pitcher like Tom Glavine when he’s close to winning 300?  And how did it effect you when you were just shy of 300 wins?

A:

I was fortunate because in 1982, when I won my 300th game, it’d been 19 years since Early Winn had reached the 300 mark.  We were playing the Yankees and I’d just won my 298th game playing them so I knew how to pitch them.  There was a lot of media for that time, even the President (Reagan) called to say he and Nancy would be in bed by the time the game was over but they were pulling for me.  I just used this pressure as inspiration and went out to the mound and pitched the game like I’d always done.